By 640Newton - 30 Sep 2010
Hello everyone, I am a member of the RRSPORT.CO.UK forum and they have referred me over to you guys to hopefully answer a question for me.
I have a 2008 TDV8 and I would like to install a winch and an underbody bash plate/shield. However, I am getting many conflicting opinions from LR and part shops about whether or not I can fit either of these accessories. The most common opinion is that I can fit the winch or the bash plate because of the oil cooler/radiator setup means there's nowhere to mount the brackets.
Then one of the members on the other forum referred me to here as apparently the last lot of the G4 RRS' were TDV8's. So I'm hoping that someone can help me with the following questions:
1) can the recommended Warn winch be installed on a TDV8?
2) if so, is it the standard winch and bracket available from LR?
3) if not, which winch model number is it and what modifications need to be made to mount the winch?
4) can the underbody shield be installed on a standard TDV8?
5) does anything need to be done to the suspension to support the extra weight of the winch?
6) has anyone replaced the steel rope with synthetic rope?
Apologies for all the questions on my first post.
Thanks,
640Newton
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By stu_007 - 1 Oct 2010
Speak to Marc Rankin, who has bought the only 2009 RRS
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By Kennaugh - 1 Oct 2010
I have one of the two 2008 TDV8 Range Rovers (not Sport), if I can be of any help. It is not supposed to be possible to fit a winch to that either, but it is there! The factory seem to have done a few modifications at the front end - happy to photograph it if you like.I don't think the suspension has been modified though. The understeer that the extra lump of metal hanging out of the front induces (added to body roll from the couple of hundred kilos of roof rack) doesn't exactly encourage you to hustle the car along winding roads, but I guess that's not the point...
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By camel_landy - 1 Oct 2010
The Range Rover is a completely different chassis to the RRS and so has different mountings, etc...
You can fit a winch to the TDV8 and the only ones which would be type approved would be the Warn one. If it were me, I'd be talking to either Land Rover Vehicle Ops (Gaydon) or to Arbil (UK Warn distributors) to get details on part numbers, etc...
The only problem I have come across with the winch on the TDV8, is that it can upset the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) as it's proximity to the radar unit can confuse the system. However, you don't need to adjust the suspension as the car will do that automatically. Oil coolers can be re-located to alternate locations but I don't believe it would be necessary with the Warn winch cradle.
As for the sump guards, yep... They fit without any problems. Have a chat to Mantec and they should be able to sort you out with one.
Finally, I would seriously ask the question about why you want a winch mounted on the car. Whilst they CAN be very useful in the right situation, most of the time they are little more than just bling (and heavy bling at that!). Also, unless you keep it properly serviced, you'll usually find that on the one & only time you get to use it, it doesn't work!!
My preference is to carry a hand winch, such as a Turfor. Whist, it doesn't look as cool as a winch on the front of your car, it is much more versatile as you can winch in any direction. With a vehicle mounted winch, you can only winch forwards!!!
My 2p.
M
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By MikeS - 4 Oct 2010
640N is in Oz, so a permanent mounted winch may well be more useful to him, as well as the hand held jobbie.
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By 640Newton - 4 Oct 2010
Thanks for everyone's replies and advice.As mentioned, I am based in Australia so the likelihood of needing a winch is increased on many of the trips we do, particularly as we've just ordered an "Ultimate" off-road camper trailer. I thought about the hand-held units but have struggled to find one that is rated high enough. However, I guess I'm still not 100% sure that I will be able to mount the factory recommended Warn winch to a TDV8 in a RRS guise. Thr FFRR is obviously a different chassis all together and it sounds as though there would be a quite of work involved on my RRS to relocate oil coolers, parking sensors, disabling the ACC etc to make it work. If only I could afford to upgrade to the new 4.4 TDV8 FFRR then problems would be solved :P
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By MikeS - 4 Oct 2010
640The ACC sensitivity isn't affected by the winch, well certainly not on mine anyway and I use the ACC a few times a week. The 2 park sensors can be fitted into the winch cradle, drill a couple of holes in the front of it for them, extend the wiring and bobs your aunties brother. I think in that respect it's easier for you to do the installation as you've already got all the necessary wiring in place & the ecu knows it's there, whereas I'm missing the park sensor wiring for the inner 2 sensors. Cutting up the front bumper skin, not difficult and I'm happy to provide you with measurements off my front bumper to show where it's cut. Moving the coolers is a little different, but if LR have done it then there's clearly a solution. Never having looked behind the bumper of a TDV8 to see how much space there is I couldn't comment. Contact the suppliers from camel-landy's post and I'm sure you'll get the right answers. Would there be any issues with regards to the 'approvals' or otherwise for use in Aus ? I seem to recall there being a few hurdles to jump when I enquired about shipping my RRS out there ?
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By camel_landy - 4 Oct 2010
640N
Firstly, post the same question up on www.aulro.com... ;) Then, do a search and you'll find the pros & cons of vehicle mounted winches discussed there at great length.
As for being out in Oz, I'd still suggest a hand held. In fact, having traveled quite a bit around the outback myself, I'd prefer the hand winch over a vehicle mounted winch.
Why??
If you get stuck while touring, you want the easy route out... Which is usually the same way you went in! As mentioned before, the winch can only pull you further in!!
You also commented about the ratings. Remember, you would only be using the Tirfor as a WINCH, not a HOIST... There is a big difference.
M
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By camel_landy - 4 Oct 2010
Actually, here are some facts & figures for you.
You ready for this? :D
Firstly, let us look at pulling the RRS along a level surface. Take the total weight of the vehicle and multiply it by the following loadings:
* Road – 5%
* Grass – 15%
* Sand/Gravel – 20%
* Soft sand – 30%
* Mud – 35%
* Bog/clay – 50%
So, if you’re running at your normal weight and you’re stuck in soft sand, you will need a line pull of 810kg (2700 x 30%).
Now, let us look at going up hill! The equation looks much like this: (Angle of slope / 60) x vehicle weight. Once you have calculated this, you then add it to the previously calculated pull on a level surface.
So, let us put that RRS in a very sticky situation... It is stuck in very sticky mud and you’re trying to winch it up a 20 degree slope. (Frankly, you probably should have turned around a while back but it makes for a good example). The calculations come out much like this:
* Ground - 2700kg x 50% = 1350kg
* Slope – 2700 x (20/60) = 900kg
Total line pull required will be 2250kg (1350kg + 900kg).
So, even for a fairly extreme situation, you probably wouldn’t need more than a 3000kg pull...
For expedition use, a Tirfor TU16 will probably get you out of most (if not all) situations. If you’re really paranoid (and driving like a cock!) you could go for a TU32.
Tirfor Brochure
Make sense??
M
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By 640Newton - 5 Oct 2010
Thanks M, this information is brilliant and all makes sense. I wonder why shops don't make information available this easily? I guess they just want to sell the most expensive and/or most common option.I'll certainly investigate the Tirfor portable winches as it will certainly be better to only have to carry one when we might need it rather than modify the car for something that we might only need a couple of times a year. I have never managed to get myself seriously stuck yet and the e-diff combined with mud terrain tyres has certainly done the job for me so far (but you just never know). Thanks,
M
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By MikeS - 5 Oct 2010
What a fantastic explanation !I'd still rather just flick a switch on the winch remote, but hey, no point having the winch and not using it. :P
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By aedwar57 - 5 Oct 2010
Unofficially:You can't legally fit a winch due to the front axle gross weight legally over weight. You can however fit an lower non winch under protection plate to a tdv8 because it was done for the Mongolian recce vehicles x2 You can fit an winch though Non legal the Warn 9000i Disco 4 /Sport v6 fits with a little fetteling . The non winch shield can be only purchased through Mantec ...
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By 640Newton - 5 Oct 2010
aedwar57 (05/10/2010)
Unofficially: You can't legally fit a winch due to the front axle gross weight legally over weight. You can however fit an lower non winch under protection plate to a tdv8 because it was done for the Mongolian recce vehicles x2 You can fit an winch though Non legal the Warn 9000i Disco 4 /Sport v6 fits with a little fetteling . The non winch shield can be only purchased through Mantec ... I am going to go for the Tirfor portable winch so all I need now is a bit of extra under body protection. So is the non-winch under body protection plate a simple fit with no additional modifications required?
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By camel_landy - 5 Oct 2010
I've not fitted one myself but it should be fairly straight forward. If you purchase a Mantec one, it should come with full instructions and all the fittings.M
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By camel_landy - 5 Oct 2010
640Newton (05/10/2010)
I wonder why shops don't make information available this easily? I guess they just want to sell the most expensive and/or most common option.
Bingo... Quite often the winch is selected more as a fashion accessory without consideration of the pros & cons.
Do you know the alternative meaning for ARB??? ;)
In fact, if I was a betting man, I'd probably wager that most of the winches belonging to the members of this forum probably don't even work properly, let alone get used!!
I personally find that it's usually quicker & easier getting the shovel out rather than setting up a winch! That said, in the right situation, a decent winch is worth its weight...
M
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By CraigS-L - 6 Oct 2010
You are probably tright there - I have used mine 4 times in 3 years, mostly pulling people out of snow where there is not enough road to pull with a strop, so is usually very relaxed - however I have to run the rope out and back every so often to clean off the moss that grows on it.........
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By 640Newton - 6 Oct 2010
camel_landy (05/10/2010)
Do you know the alternative meaning for ARB??? ;)
Not familiar with that one Camel Landy :ermm:
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By camel_landy - 6 Oct 2010
640Newton (06/10/2010)
camel_landy (05/10/2010)
Do you know the alternative meaning for ARB??? ;)
Not familiar with that one Camel Landy :ermm: "Any Rich B'stard" can have one... ;) M
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By 640Newton - 7 Oct 2010
Well I definitely aint rich so I don't have any ARB accessories :P (except the ones that came fitted to the car when we bought it)
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